Podcast: Lawyer’s Business Advantage

Episode 99: Interview with Jennifer F. Novak

May 6th, 2024

Read the Transcript Below

This podcast is dedicated to helping attorneys earn more money, get better clients, and spend more time with family. I'm your host, LA Yajnik, founder of Law Firm Success Group—smart business guidance for small law firms begins in 3… 2… 1…

And it’s my pleasure to welcome to Lawyer Business Advantage, Jennifer Novak, environmental law and litigation attorney. Jennifer, welcome to the show today.

Jennifer:

Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

LA Yajnik:

That’s great to see you. First off, just share with us—what is environmental law exactly? I’ve heard lots of different things.

Jennifer:

Well, that’s a great question because often when we think about environmental law, we’re thinking big-picture issues—polar bears starving or climate change. Really, the way I like to describe it is: environmental law is all about virtually everything you do over the course of your day.

The regulation of the air you breathe, the water you drink, the chemicals that can go into the products that you use, how your food is grown, and the safety levels. So much of what we do in life is governed by science and by environmental laws to ensure that we’re protecting people and we’re protecting our resources. So it’s a pretty broad category in terms of all the things that it touches.

Environmental law specifically is helping to navigate that realm from a policy position and then also trying to make it all make sense in a real-world, business-type situation.

LA Yajnik:

So who is a typical client of yours? Not obviously divulging names, but how would you describe your typical client?

Jennifer:

Our clients tend to fall into three categories.

Businesses that are subject to environmental rules and regulations—they have to comply with how they operate, how they handle their chemicals, how they transport things in a way that minimizes any accidents and ensures they’re detailing all the things going on with their business.
Property owners or people looking to get into a real property transaction. What do you do if it turns out that property might have contaminated another property or itself might have some problems? What are the legal liabilities that arise from that? The costs of fixing it?
Environmental nonprofits—sometimes we do work with them when they’re seeking to enforce the laws. If we feel a business has behaved particularly badly—not just that they don’t know the rules, but they’re openly flouting them—then yes, sometimes, to keep the system honest, we may try to enforce against them to hold them accountable for their actions.

LA Yajnik:

Wow. Those are three enormous potential areas where you get into this. So how did you get into environmental law?

Jennifer:

Almost midway through my career, I had the chance to work for the California Department of Justice, Office of the Attorney General, which serves as the outside law firm for California state agencies. My clients were everyone from CalEPA to our water boards, air resources boards, Cal Fire, and the various resource agencies tasked with balancing the economy and the needs of the people with protection of our resources. I got involved in environmental law that way.

Truthfully, as important as it is, I hadn’t been looking to go fight the good fight from an environmental perspective. I just loved being a lawyer, helping people, and solving problems. I fell into this over 20 years ago, and it’s fascinating—so I’ve stuck with it.

LA Yajnik:

What made you decide to start your own practice?

Jennifer:

I got to a point in my career where I thought if I stayed in government, I ran the risk of only being a government lawyer for the rest of my life. I was in my 30s and felt like I still had room to grow, still wanted to challenge myself. The opportunity came up to go into business and help a friend who was starting a law firm. Ultimately, that led to my own decision to give it a try myself—to try to create the perfect law firm based on everything I’d seen over my lifetime and the lessons learned from friends, family, and my own experiences.

LA Yajnik:

I love that. You weren’t just trying to get by and survive—you clearly had something in mind that you were trying to build. What were some of the top challenges you had to overcome to get where you are now once you started your firm?

Jennifer:

That’s a great question.

Mindset Shift—They don’t train you how to run a business; they train you how to be a lawyer (and some would argue they may not even do that well). It was hard going from no entrepreneurial experience, no entrepreneurs in my background or family, to understanding the different mindset you need as a business owner—taking risks, not always having the perfect answer, and still having to act. The law is always so conservative—we’re always thinking worst-case scenario and want everything to be perfect.
Value & Money Conversations—If you’ve never had to negotiate with people over money or talk to clients who may or may not have a lot of it but still need your help, those conversations are tough. You have to understand your own value and convey it in a way that doesn’t make it seem like a cold, heartless transaction. That’s the knock so many people have on lawyers—that we’re greedy and only about the money. Often, we’re really just trying to help people, but money is how we earn our living.

LA Yajnik:

Awesome. And clearly, you’ve sorted those out—the entrepreneurial mindset, marketing (your website has videos, which is terrific), and your practice is thriving. So how do you explain environmental law to other attorneys, and how easy have you found it to market your services?

Jennifer:

It’s interesting because the sales part of my practice is the easiest—people tend to come to me when they’re in trouble. It’s a little like being arrested for a crime. If you get an order saying, “We think you’ve contaminated a property,” you don’t have a choice—you need a lawyer.

The trick is explaining to people what environmental law is, why they need to think about it, why it’s good business to have foresight, and how attorneys can better serve clients by understanding consequences. A lot of the marketing on our website is educational—explaining things like:

You can’t just write “as-is” in a real estate transaction and assume you walk away from problems.
If you’re a criminal defense attorney and your client pleads no contest, there may be consequences decades later when regulators come knocking.

A lot of lawyers don’t do this or aren’t comfortable with it. I have to do it to let people know environmental law is a real thing impacting businesses and real people.

LA Yajnik:

Where do you find most of your clients come from—referrals from other attorneys or other marketing?

Jennifer:

A fair amount comes from environmental consultants—they get called in to assess situations and often recognize when a lawyer’s perspective is needed. Another portion is from other attorneys who see something outside their comfort zone and need our input. Post-COVID, with the real estate market booming, we’ve also gotten calls from mortgage brokers, real estate attorneys, and agents.

LA Yajnik:

What are some signs that attorneys should pick up the phone and call you rather than trying to handle it themselves?

Jennifer:

If you work with businesses in industries subject to environmental regulations—gas stations, car dealerships, bus companies, wineries—they all have compliance rules. Helping them comply can mean the difference between huge liability later or narrowing their exposure.

For example, I love talking to probate attorneys because within a family’s portfolio might be a business or property that’s a liability, not an asset. If a dry cleaner used to operate on a property, segregating that early can limit liabilities.

LA Yajnik:

Wow. So everything from dry cleaners to fueling stations, mining, manufacturing—those are all clients of yours?

Jennifer:

Correct.

LA Yajnik:

What does a typical preventative engagement look like?

Jennifer:

For developers, we review geotech reports, flag problems, or reassure them if things look good.
For businesses subject to public reporting, we advise on practices to minimize public scrutiny.
High-level risk assessment to avoid future issues.

LA Yajnik:

As you look to grow your firm, what are key growth challenges?

Jennifer:

Hiring—It’s tough to find experienced lawyers in niche fields. You don’t want to hire too many and not have work, but you need capacity.
Messaging—Getting people to invest in foresight. A few hours upfront can save thousands or millions later. Lawyers need to think beyond the immediate and educate clients on potential issues.

LA Yajnik:

For attorneys trying to sell preventative services, how do you get clients to say yes?

Jennifer:

I tell horror stories. People who’ve been burned before learn and bring me in early. The legal bills are smaller because it’s driven by science or waiting—they just want someone on their bench. Sharing stories in podcasts or bar events gets people thinking.

LA Yajnik:

War stories sell—whether you’re litigation or transactional. It’s not a scare tactic; it’s education. What tips do you have for telling war stories?

Jennifer:

Truth is powerful—Sometimes people confess past mistakes, which humanizes the issue.
Listen to others—Take business owners to lunch, ask about their challenges. Their stories can be just as valuable.

LA Yajnik:

What are you looking forward to in the next year?

Jennifer:

California’s constantly reexamining environmental regulations. New rules will pull in businesses not previously subject to them, leading to fights over fairness and compliance. It’ll start in LA and spread nationwide.

LA Yajnik:

How can people connect with you?

Jennifer:

Visit our website: www.jfforfranknovaklaw.com. You’ll see our videos, and there’s a contact form for free 15-minute discovery calls.

LA Yajnik:

Awesome. Thank you, Jennifer!

Jennifer:

Thank you—I really appreciate it!

LA Yajnik:

That’s a wrap for this episode of Lawyer Business Advantage. If you enjoyed this, please rate and leave a comment on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen. Connect with me on LinkedIn and let me know what you think.

If you’re a solo or small law firm owner looking to earn more, attract better clients, or reduce stress, request a free law firm assessment at lawfirmsuccessgroup.com.

Until next time, remember: You can seize freedom. You can embrace happiness. You can build your perfect practice.