Podcast: Candid Convos
Episode: Building Trust with Jennifer F. Novak
March 14th, 2024
Read the Transcript Below
- Host:
I welcome everybody to another episode of Candid Convos. Today’s guest is environmental lawyer Jennifer. Jennifer, thank you for joining. - Jennifer:
Thank you. So glad to be here. - Host:
The practice area you manage isn’t that common. How did you get into environmental law? - Jennifer:
I’d love to say this is what I always wanted to do, but that’s not true. I always wanted to be a lawyer. Over 20 years ago, I had the opportunity to work for the California Department of Justice (the Attorney General’s office). At the time, they needed an attorney with trial/litigation experience more than an environmental lawyer, but I worked within one of their environmental units. Despite lacking subject-matter experience, I had litigation skills, so they took a chance on me. I just wanted to get into that office and was willing to dabble in a new area. Then, I spent years learning environmental law. - Host:
You always wanted to be a lawyer, and your career led you to environmental law. Did you fall in love with it? What kept you there? - Jennifer:
A few things: - Fascination—It touches people’s daily lives, balancing real-world needs with environmental protection.
- Science + Law—You’re always dealing with the science behind regulations.
- Collaborative Community—Practitioners (even adversaries) tend to be nice, smart, and work well together. We all believe in the environment but disagree on priorities.
- Host:
It sounds very professional, even in adversarial situations. You must handle sensitive cases—very exciting! - Jennifer:
Yes. My practice mostly represents businesses or property owners who must follow environmental regulations. They’re often dealing with: - Past issues (e.g., chemicals handled, property contamination).
- Multigenerational businesses where the new generation wants sustainability but learns they’re legally responsible for past problems.
We do a lot of hand-holding and education to help clients navigate these challenges. - Host:
You work with legacy-focused clients. Do you wake up feeling you’re making a difference? - Jennifer:
Absolutely. Our goal is to work with good people in bad situations. We don’t judge—we help them protect their families, businesses, and assets while addressing environmental problems. But clients must recognize their role in the solution. If they just want to hear “it’s not your fault,” we’re not the right fit. - Host:
Your empathy and pacing stand out. Did your practice evolve this way, or was it intentional? - Jennifer:
An evolution. Coming from government, I saw agencies criticized by businesses for overreach and by environmentalists for not doing enough. That balanced perspective aligns with who I am—even-keeled, not alarmist. We focus on creative solutions, especially when stepping into long-spinning cases. Over time, we learned we do our best work when we love our clients and share common goals. - Host:
What’s one thing business owners should know about environmental regulations? - Jennifer:
It’s strict liability—intent or ignorance doesn’t matter. Violations are violations. The system relies on self-regulation and record-keeping. If you lack documentation, it’s evidence against you. Prioritize compliance early—it’s cheaper than fixing problems later. - Host:
How has remote work impacted environmental law? - Jennifer:
- Industrial businesses can’t go remote—their physical operations still face regulations.
- Real estate booms post-pandemic led to more discoveries of environmental issues during transactions.
- Environmental trade-offs: Less commuting improved air quality, but increased single-use plastics and e-waste. Every choice has an impact.
- Host:
Your firm culture stands out. How do you maintain it remotely? - Jennifer:
- Onboarding: Recorded videos explain firm values and expectations.
- Weekly “Fika”: Non-work video calls to bond (no work talk allowed!).
- Hybrid flexibility: Most team members work remotely or hybrid. One is fully remote (from another country)—we stay connected via daily check-ins.
- Host:
Where can people find you? - Jennifer:
Our website: www.jfnjfnovaklaw.com. We offer free 15-minute calls to discuss environmental concerns—often saving people from bigger problems down the road. - Host:
Jennifer, it’s been an honor. Thank you for your kindness and wisdom! - Jennifer:
Thank you! - g to act. The law is always so conservative—we’re always thinking worst-case scenario and want everything to be perfect.
- Value & Money Conversations—If you’ve never had to negotiate with people over money or talk to clients who may or may not have a lot of it but still need your help, those conversations are tough. You have to understand your own value and convey it in a way that doesn’t make it seem like a cold, heartless transaction. That’s the knock so many people have on lawyers—that we’re greedy and only about the money. Often, we’re really just trying to help people, but money is how we earn our living.
LA Yajnik:
Awesome. And clearly, you’ve sorted those out—the entrepreneurial mindset, marketing (your website has videos, which is terrific), and your practice is thriving. So how do you explain environmental law to other attorneys, and how easy have you found it to market your services?
Jennifer:
It’s interesting because the sales part of my practice is the easiest—people tend to come to me when they’re in trouble. It’s a little like being arrested for a crime. If you get an order saying, “We think you’ve contaminated a property,” you don’t have a choice—you need a lawyer.
The trick is explaining to people what environmental law is, why they need to think about it, why it’s good business to have foresight, and how attorneys can better serve clients by understanding consequences. A lot of the marketing on our website is educational—explaining things like:
- You can’t just write “as-is” in a real estate transaction and assume you walk away from problems.
- If you’re a criminal defense attorney and your client pleads no contest, there may be consequences decades later when regulators come knocking.
A lot of lawyers don’t do this or aren’t comfortable with it. I have to do it to let people know environmental law is a real thing impacting businesses and real people.
LA Yajnik:
Where do you find most of your clients come from—referrals from other attorneys or other marketing?
Jennifer:
A fair amount comes from environmental consultants—they get called in to assess situations and often recognize when a lawyer’s perspective is needed. Another portion is from other attorneys who see something outside their comfort zone and need our input. Post-COVID, with the real estate market booming, we’ve also gotten calls from mortgage brokers, real estate attorneys, and agents.
LA Yajnik:
What are some signs that attorneys should pick up the phone and call you rather than trying to handle it themselves?
Jennifer:
If you work with businesses in industries subject to environmental regulations—gas stations, car dealerships, bus companies, wineries—they all have compliance rules. Helping them comply can mean the difference between huge liability later or narrowing their exposure.
For example, I love talking to probate attorneys because within a family’s portfolio might be a business or property that’s a liability, not an asset. If a dry cleaner used to operate on a property, segregating that early can limit liabilities.
LA Yajnik:
Wow. So everything from dry cleaners to fueling stations, mining, manufacturing—those are all clients of yours?
Jennifer:
Correct.
LA Yajnik:
What does a typical preventative engagement look like?
Jennifer:
- For developers, we review geotech reports, flag problems, or reassure them if things look good.
- For businesses subject to public reporting, we advise on practices to minimize public scrutiny.
- High-level risk assessment to avoid future issues.
LA Yajnik:
As you look to grow your firm, what are key growth challenges?
Jennifer:
- Hiring—It’s tough to find experienced lawyers in niche fields. You don’t want to hire too many and not have work, but you need capacity.
- Messaging—Getting people to invest in foresight. A few hours upfront can save thousands or millions later. Lawyers need to think beyond the immediate and educate clients on potential issues.
LA Yajnik:
For attorneys trying to sell preventative services, how do you get clients to say yes?
Jennifer:
I tell horror stories. People who’ve been burned before learn and bring me in early. The legal bills are smaller because it’s driven by science or waiting—they just want someone on their bench. Sharing stories in podcasts or bar events gets people thinking.
LA Yajnik:
War stories sell—whether you’re litigation or transactional. It’s not a scare tactic; it’s education. What tips do you have for telling war stories?
Jennifer:
- Truth is powerful—Sometimes people confess past mistakes, which humanizes the issue.
- Listen to others—Take business owners to lunch, ask about their challenges. Their stories can be just as valuable.
LA Yajnik:
What are you looking forward to in the next year?
Jennifer:
California’s constantly reexamining environmental regulations. New rules will pull in businesses not previously subject to them, leading to fights over fairness and compliance. It’ll start in LA and spread nationwide.
LA Yajnik:
How can people connect with you?
Jennifer:
Visit our website: www.jfforfranknovaklaw.com. You’ll see our videos, and there’s a contact form for free 15-minute discovery calls.
LA Yajnik:
Awesome. Thank you, Jennifer!
Jennifer:
Thank you—I really appreciate it!
LA Yajnik:
That’s a wrap for this episode of Lawyer Business Advantage. If you enjoyed this, please rate and leave a comment on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen. Connect with me on LinkedIn and let me know what you think.
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